Xhieda ta’ James Camenzuli – 2 ta’ Settembru 2020
L-Atti tal-Inkjesta datata 19 ta' Novembru 2019, rigward skont it-Termini ta’ Referenza ta’ l- Inkjesta Pubblika dwar l- Assassinju ta’ Daphne Caruana Galizia.
Seduta miżmuma llum l-Erbgha 2 ta’ Settembru 2020, fid-9:30 a.m. fit- Tieni Sular, Awla 20, il-Qorti.
Xhud James Camenzuli iben il-mejtin Emanuel u Evelina nee` Bouvet imwieled il-Pieta` u residenti Balzan, bil-Malti u bil-gurament tieghu jghid :
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Sur Camenzuli, tridx nibdew billi ittina daqsxejn informazzjoni generali dwar il-hatriet tieghek. Ahna nafu per ezempju li inti gejt kont Chairman ta’ Projects Malta bejn it-30 ta’ Gunju 2017 ..
Ix-Xhud :
Iva.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
U rrezenjajt fit-13 ta’ Mejju 2020.
Ix-Xhud :
Yes yes.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Imbaghad gejt mahtur Chairman fuq Projects Plus ..
Ix-Xhud :
No. CEO Projects Plus
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
CEO Projects Plus fit-28 ta’ Jannar 2019
Ix-Xhud :
Ezatt ezatt. Ezatt iva hekk hu
Imhallef A Lofaro :
U ghadek hekk sal-lum hux hekk?
Ix-Xhud :
Ghadni hekk sal-lum fil-fatt.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Hemm overlap qed nara jien, li kien hemm zmien meta kont ghadek Chairman Projects Malta u CEO Projects Plus
Ix-Xhud :
Iva.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Hemm overlap
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Illum, illum voldieri inti qieghed CEO Projects Plus
Ix-Xhud :
CEO Projects Plus.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Dik hija l-kariga li ghandek illum.
Ix-Xhud :
Ezatt, yes
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Tista’ tghidilna xi hatriet ohrajn?
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
X’ hatriet ohrajn kellek ..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Tista’ tghidilna ftit ghax ahna …, id-differenza bejn Projects Plus ..
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
…. u Projects Malta
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
…u Projects Malta, jigifieri ghaliex kien hemm bzonn dawn iz-zewg organizzazzjonijiet differenti.
Ix-Xhud :
Le, huma zewg kumpaniji differenti fil-fatt.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Imma l-iskop taghhom x’ inhu jigifieri?
Ix-Xhud :
Mela Projects Plus hija kumpanija bazikament tahdem fuq progetti kapitali; u Projects Malta hija kumpanija tahdem fuq public private partnership projects.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Jigifieri l-ohra ma ghandha x’ taqsam xejn mal-privat..
Ix-Xhud :
No
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Mal-pubbliku biss.
Ix-Xhud :
Projects Plus
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Projects Plus mal-pubbliku biss.
Ix-Xhud :
Governattiva
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
All right.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Issa, qabel din il-hatra kont ukoll CEO tal-Medical Services Foundation .
Ix-Xhud :
Foundation for Medical Services yes; kont CEO, fit-2014 gejt mahtur CEO ta’ l-FMS
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Tal-FMS. U..
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ta’ l-Energija, Water Services x’ kont?
Ix-Xhud :
Jiena Chairman tar-regolatur ta’ l-Energija
Imhallef A Lofaro :
U ghadek, ok.
Ix-Xhud :
U ghadni.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
U Malta Recourses Authority, hux hekk? Chairman?
Ix-Xhud :
No, ehe ovvjament ghax qabel kien jisimha Malta Recourses Authority u llum il-gurnata jisimha REWS – Regulator for Energy and Water Services.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
U ghadek qed tokkupa din il-kariga sal-lum.
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Ok. Issa nigu ftit ghal progett ta’ l-Electrogas tal-PowerStation. Inti bhala professjoni Inginier hux hekk?
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Inginier. X’ tista’ tghidilna fuq dan il-progett ghal dak li jirrigwardja l-hatra tieghek bhala Chairman ta’ Projects Malta jew Projects Plus, jekk kontx involut fiha.
Ix-Xhud :
Ma kontx involut xejn.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Xejn.
Ix-Xhud :
Not at all.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Jigifieri ma kontx involut ‘il ghaliex ma gietx quddiemek jew ghax ma gietx prezentata ..
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Jew ghax mhux suppost li giet quddiemek?
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
…li mhux suppost giet quddiemek?
Ix-Xhud :
L-ewwel nett jiena meta dhalt hemm qatt ma kienet.. qatt ma..; Electrogas lanqas biss.. jigifieri tissemma fir-rwol ta’ Projects Malta jew Plus jigifieri.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Xejn.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Jigifieri mhux suppost li giet qudidemek.
Ix-Xhud :
Le jien qatt ma gie xejn quddiemi ta’ ..
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Imma mhux hekk staqsejtek; suppost li giet quddiemek jew le?
Ix-Xhud :
Le ma..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Jew qabel forsi? Qabel?
Ix-Xhud :
Probabbili qabel din; jigifieri jiena wara dhalt hemmhekk
Imhallef A Lofaro :
…grat qabel..
Ix-Xhud :
Ezatt.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Fthemna; ok.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Pero` sibt xi file li jirrigwardja l-Electrogas?
Ix-Xhud :
No.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Minn ta’ qablek.
Ix-Xhud :
Fi zmieni ma sibt xejn.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Le, minn qablek, ghax ikun hemm handovers minn Chairman ghal iehor
Ix-Xhud :
Iva; imma qatt ma rajt xejn.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Qatt ma rajt xejn.
Ix-Xhud :
No.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Issa nigu ghal tal-Vitals; ta’ l-isptar tal-Vitals; dika giet quddiemek?
Ix-Xhud :
Jiena quddiemi ..
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Jew quddiemek fis-sens ta’ Chairman, bhala Chairman tal-Projects Malta jew Projects Plus.
Ix-Xhud :
Ovvjament jien taht Projects Malta; jigifieri x-xoghol li sar min-nies ta’ qabli ovvjament jibqa’ hemmhekk u ovvja l-files qeghdin hemmhekk jigifieri.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Jigifieri l-files tal-Vitals gew quddiem Projects Malta
Ix-Xhud :
Qeghdin Projects Malta; il-files tal-bid, jigifieri ta’ li ghandu x’ jaqsam mal- Vitals tal-concession ta’ l-isptar
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Kif beda l-progett.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Kif beda l-progett.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
..fil- …taghkom.
Ix-Xhud :
Ezatt. Jigifieri d-dokumenti li ovvjament kellhom x’ jaqsmu mal-concession agreement.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Jigifieri intom sibtu fede e comple voldieri gew dokumenti biss? Kontu parti mid-diskussjoni ghandhiex tinghata din il-koncessjoni?
Ix-Xhud :
Jiena fi zmieni meta dhalt id-decizjoni kienet jigifieri ..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Sibtha lesta.
Ix-Xhud :
Kienet diga`; jiena bhala Projects Malta qed nghid.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Le. Bhala Projects Malta ma tidholx hux?
Ix-Xhud :
Jiena ..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ghax mhux qed ….
Ix-Xhud :
Jiena meta dhalt jien id-decizjoni kienet diga` ittiehdet
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Fil-fatt kien gie xi hadd u tlabnieh li jgib il-file mieghu tal-Vitals u gab il- minuti. Issa ma nafx kif ser ikunu ghandna dawn.
Ix-Xhud :
Ovvjament jiena ma ghadnix Projects Malta
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Issa m’ ghadekx. Minn meta? Minn Mejju?
Ix-Xhud :
Minn Mejju.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Jigifieri tal-Vitals ma gietx quddiemek
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
…..ma ghamilt xejn fiha din, fis-sens ma kontx involut wara …
Ix-Xhud :
Le jiena..
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Qatt attendejt xi cabinet meeting rigward diskussjoni tal-Vitals?
Ix-Xhud :
Iva; bhala Vitals jiena kont mhux bhala Projects Malta, fl-evalutaion .
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Tispjegalna please?
Ix-Xhud :
Fl-evaluation committee.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Tghidilna ftit kif kont involut?
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ghidilna ftit inti.
Ix-Xhud :
Mela jiena bazikament kont ghadni l-FMS bhala CEO u gejt imqabbad mill- Office of the Permanent Secretary biex impoggi fuq il-Bord ta’ l-evaluation tal-VGH ta’ l-isptarijiet. Bazikament..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Il-Permanent Secretary or the ….Permanent Secretary? Il-Permanent Secretary ta’ liema Dipartiment? Liema Dipartiment?
Ix-Xhud :
Energy and Projects
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Energy and Projects li kien jaqa’ taht il-Ministru dak iz-zmien ….?
Ix-Xhud :
Konrad Mizzi.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Iva, kompli.
Ix-Xhud :
Jigifieri bazikament gejt mahtur membru fuq dak il-Bord. Ir-remit taghna kien li nevalwaw il-bids fuq il-concession ta’ l-isptarijiet u skont l-RFP li harget Projects Malta, jigifieri bazikament ahna rridu nevalwaw il-bids kollha li jintefghu ghal din il-concession, u wara l-process ta’ evalwazzjoni kellna ovvjament nghidu…. niddikjaraw min hu l-preferred bidder mill-bids kollha li intefghu.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
U x’ gara?
Imhallef A Lofaro :
X’ kien ir-rwol tieghek imbaghad?
Ix-Xhud :
Mela jiena ovvjament jiena kont bhala Chairman tal-Bord, jigifieri bazikament il-bids dahlu f’ Projects Malta. Kellna nutar li gie biex jiftah il-bids fil- prezenza tal-membri kollha ta’ l-evaluation committee; jigifieri din giet dokumentata biex ovvjament il-bids jigu analizzati jekk humiex complaint administratively min-nutar stess. Fl-istess hin..
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
In-nutar min kien?
Ix-Xhud :
Marco Burlo`.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Ok.
Ix-Xhud :
Imbaghad bazikament il-bids ovvjament…., sorry, in-nutar fetah l-iscore sheet li kienet issigillata ghandu biex ahna nkunu nistghu nimxu fuq dik l-iscore sheet, u n-nutar ghamililna rapport li ovvjament gie anness mar-rapport taghna ta’ l-evaluation committee. Issa ovvjament dika meta tigi ghal parti administrattiva fejn jinfethu l-bids kollha. Imbaghad ahna bhala Bord bqajna niltaqghu madwar xi ghaxar darbiet biex ovvjament naghmlu l-evalwazzjoni fuq il-bids li rcivejna.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ghandi nifhem li kien hemm numru ta’ bids hux hekk? Kien hemm numru ta’ bids.
Ix-Xhud :
Kien hemm tlieta (3) bids.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Tlieta.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Tlieta. Ir-rapport tan-nutar x’ kien jghid fis-succinct?
Ix-Xhud :
Mela r-rapport tan-nutar in a nutshell bazikament kien jghid li.. ovvjament iccekkjana r-requirements li kienu specifiki fl-RFP li kellhom ikunu.. li l-bids kellhom ovvjament jaghtu specifikatament administratively biex ikunu compliant u r-rapport jghid il-fatti li tnejn mill-bids ma kienux compliant mainly ghax il-bid bonds ma kienux hemmhekk; jigifieri kien hemm affarijiet ohra; per ezempju copies ma kien hemmx bizzejjed; milli niftakar ta’ jigifieri! Imma kien hemm hafna affarijiet li ma kienux compliant.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Jigifieri minn tlieta spiccat wahda allura hux hekk?
Ix-Xhud :
U minn tlieta spiccat wahda.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
U min kien dan il-wiehed li kien fadal?
Ix-Xhud :
Il-wiehed li kien fadal kien ta’ Vital Global Healthcare
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Ta’ Vital Global Healthcare
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ta’ Vitals.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Dawn il-kondizzjonijiet f’ envelopes issigillati li fetah in-nutar dak min ikun ghamilhom dawk? Mid-Dipartiment? Mill-Ministru? Minn fejn?
Ix-Xhud :
F’ liema sens?
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Dawn, ghedtilna li kien hemm envelope li intom ftahtu, u kien hemm il- conditions jew kien requirements u intom taghmlu tip ta’ checklist.
Ix-Xhud :
Iva ehe; dik minn Projects Malta ghaddewha lin-nutar u n-nutar zammha ghandu imma..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Imma kien dokument li ghamlet Projects Malta jew kien dokument li ghamlu xi hadd..
Ix-Xhud :
Ma nafx min ghamlu.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ma tafx min ghamlu.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Imbaghad qed tghidli li kien fadal wiehed
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Il-Vitals.
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
X’ gara mbaghad? Intom x’ ghamiltu?
Ix-Xhud :
Imbaghad ovvjament bqajna niltaqghu u ssettjajna r-rwol tal-membri x’ ghandu jkun. Jigifieri bdejna billi qrajna l-RFP fid-dettal u rajna ezatt Projects Malta xi trid minna bhala Bord u x’ ghandna naghmlu. Jigifieri biex ahna nkunu certi li qabel nibdew il-process inkunu nafu ezatt ir-rwol taghna u x’ irridu naghmlu. Bazikament iddecidejna li bhala bid kienet komprehensiva hafna u li kellna niffokaw.. per ezempju zewg membri minn tal-Bord iffokaw fuq l-att finanzjajru u ghamlu financial analysis, imma min-naha tekniku u mediku ovvjament l-ebda wiehed minna ma kellu l-expertise fuq l-att mediku u tlabna ghall-assistenza, u allokawlna lil Mr Charles Grixti bhala…..
Imhallef A Lofaro :
X’ esperjenza kellu s-Sur Grixti?
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Orthopaedic surgeon..
Ix-Xhud :
Jien ma kontx nafu personalment; jigifieri ma nistax nghidlek ezatt.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ok.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Jigifieri mhux ghaziltuh intom.
Ix-Xhud :
Le le le
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Min tahulkom allura?
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Gie assenjat lilkom
Ix-Xhud :
Gie assenjat…; tlabna ghal ghajnuna u assenjaw..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Minn ghand min imma allura?
Ix-Xhud :
..lil Projects Malta.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Lil Projects Malta. Kurjuza din. Ghax lilna l-Projects Malta qalulna li sabu kollox lest u ma ghamlu xejn ta! Ma nafx x’ jigifieri, f’ daqqa wahda ghamiltu kollox donkom! Ma nafx. Imma ta’ qablek hekk qal. Li sabuh lest dan; anyway. Jigifieri kellkom bidder wiehed u kontu qed taraw tevalwaw dak il- bider jekk kellux … biex jissodisfa…
Ix-Xhud :
Ezatt.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
U due diligence ghamiltu allura?
Ix-Xhud :
Ahna ghamilna financial analysis. Il-bid kif diga` ghedt ..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Li tinkludi due diligence fuq l-investituri?
Ix-Xhud :
Jekk ittini cans bazikament l-RFP tirrikjedi li l-bidders kellhom jissottomettu prova tal-kapacitajiet taghhom fejn tigi teknika, fejn tigi ovvjament teknika u medika, fejn tigi finanzjarja u operat. L-RFP section 4 kienet telabora ezatt ahna x’ ghandna nassessjaw fuq il-bids li nircievu. Bazikament il-bid kienet kif ghedt kienet komprehensiva hafna. Il-VGH taw prova solida u konkreta b’ ittra ta’ comfort letters fil-bid stess tal-finanzjament min ha jaghtihulhom, jigifieri ta’ l-att mediku u tekniku u ta’ l-operat. Jigifieri huma.. bhala bid kien hemm proof li l-informazzjoni li qed jiddikjaraw hemm black on white min ha jaghmel tajjeb ghalihom, jigifieri kienet prova. U barra minn hekk il-financial experts taghhom kien Price Waterhouse Coopers jigifieri kienet.. il-bid kienet maghmula b’ mod professjonali.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ifhem, hawnhekk ma ahniex biex naraw il-process tal-Vitals; dik hija xi haga li ma ghandhiex x’ taqsam m’ hawn. Ahna ghal affarijiet ohra… kif taf inti.
Ix-Xhud :
Ehe.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Jigifieri on paper inti qed tghid li kienu regola bhala.. ghalikom
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Kienu regola. Allura jekk wiehed jghid li… almenu l-allegazzjoni hi li ma kellhomx esperjenza fir-running ta’ l-isptarijiet dana kien fattur element importanti jew inkella kien hemm xi bilanci ..
Ix-Xhud :
Ara, bazikament VGH huma dahlu ghaliha bhala joint venture; jigifieri VGH, il-kumpanija VGH kella kif ghedt jien affiliation ma diversi kumpaniji. Mela biex nispjega bazikament dan huwa designed and built and operate project. Jigifieri meta nigu ghad-disinn jigifieri huma l-isptatijiet ta’ Ghawdex, ta’ St Luke’s u Karen Grech, dawn kienu qabdu lil HERI li huwa kumpanija ta’ Inginiera rinomati fl-Istati Uniti li dawn ghamlulhom il-concept design diga`; u kellhom dikjarazzjoni li dawn ser jahdmu fuq id-disinn tal-isptarijiet sabiex ovvjament igubuhom fi stat li huwa dinju u accettat ghal kulhadd.
Imbaghad min-naha finanzjarju kellhom dikjarazzjoni mill-UBO, jigifieri Ultimate Beneficialry Owner huwa Oxley Group. Li ukoll Oxley Group huwa investment company li hija b’ sahhitha, li investiet f’ hafna progetti ta’ sptarijiet barra minn Malta, fl-Istati Uniti. U bazikament kellhom ukoll ittri ta’ konferma minn diversi banek. Jigifieri kellhom iddikjaraw li ser igibu seventy percent (70 %) ta’ l-investment minn banek, jigifieri kellhom il-Bank of India li ddikjara li ser isellifhom. Kellhom banek ohra bhal l-Alliance u bhal Bank of Singapore wkoll li ddikjaraw li ser iselfuhom l-investiment. Barra minn hekk kellhom ukoll syndicate ta’ professuri barranin u expertise li wkoll kienu lesti li joffru l-investiment taghhom parti biex ovvjament jghaqdu l- investiment totali. Dak minn l-att finanzjarju.
Pero` wkoll minn l-att mediku kellhom dikjarazzjonijiet per ezempju minn l- MAMV li huwa… sorry, FANV li hija l-foundation… MANV, sorry, Medical Association of North Virginia. Bazikament dawn huma esperti baranin, huma
rinomati, jigifieri kienu lesti u ddikjaraw li bis-CVs inkludi fil-bid jigifieri ta’ kwalunke espert, jekk qed nitkellmu fuq espert tal-qalb; jekk qed nitkellmu fuq espert… fuq trauma jew rehabilitation; kellhom il-backup kollu mediku fil-fatt fil-bid ukoll. Jigifieri dawn kienu l-agreements ghamluhom diga`.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Jigifieri inti sodisfatt illi l-paperwork u d-dokumentazzjoni ..
Ix-Xhud :
Iva.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Kienet konficjenti u ..
Ix-Xhud :
Iva.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Il-problema tnejn, ghaliex, kif tispjega allura li jirrizulta wara li l-main promoter kien persuna mhux biss bla esperjenza imma kien daqsxejn b’ background difficli?
Ix-Xhud :
Ifhimni, with hindsight tista’ tghid ..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Imma issir? Dik l-investigazzjoni ma ssirx minn qabel fuq il-persuni? Dik li nghid inti.
Ix-Xhud :
Bazikament kif ghedt; jiena, dhalna fil-bid; inti ghandek VGH u mbaghad ghandek dawn id-dikjarazzjonijiet kollha minn kumpaniji li ovvja huma rinomati; ghanek il-Price Waterhouse li fformalizza il-bid totali. Jigifieri dawn mhux qed…, qed insemmu kumpaniji serji. Jigifieri ahna bazikament analizzajna d-dokumenti ..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ma ahniex qed … lilkom ghax intom timxu …
Ix-Xhud :
Mhux hekk? Jigifieri..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Pero` l-verita` hi li l-progett b’ xi mod jew iehor gralu li gralu anke ghaliex kien hemm involuti telf ta’ flus jew finanzi tal-gvern. Jigifieri dan intom ma thossx li mortu daqsxejn ..?
Ix-Xhud :
No. Ghax ahna, jiena, ahna imxejna bir-remit li kien moghti lilna..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Li kellkom, ehe.
Ix-Xhud :
U anzi ghamilnih b’ reqqa sincerament kollha jigifieri, qghadna attenti hafna u dak li kien mitlub minna skont kif ghedt fil-kapitlu 4 ta’ l-RFP ghamilnih bazikament totali.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Dan l-Oxley Group min kienu? Min huma?
Ix-Xhud :
Oxley Group huma investment company li investew hafna f’ progetti barranin, bhal sptraijiet, real estates u jigifieri qeghdin.., is-CV taghhom.. mhux is-CV insomma, il-company profile taghhom qieghed fil-bid ukoll.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
U fejn hu registrata din il-kumpanija?
Ix-Xhud :
Ma niftakarx. Offhand..
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Ma tiftakarx.
Ix-Xhud :
No.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
U min huma s-shareholders ghandek idea? Tiftakar xi haga?
Ix-Xhud :
Ifhimni, ma nazzardax ghax ma niftakarx jigifieri min huma ezatt is- shareholders taghha. Ghaddah ftit zmien!
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Forsi tal-Oxley Group ghandek ragun, imma tal-VGH? Kontu tafu tal-VGH min huma?
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Tal-VGH min kienu?
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ghax tal-Oxley Group tifhimha; kumpanija kbira
Ix-Xhud :
Iva ta’ VGH kien hemm ovvjament Ram Tumuluri. U mbaghad kien hemm diversi nies ohra imma ma niftakarx x’ jisimhom jigifieri.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Imma jirrizultalkom lilkom jigifieri? Ghandkom min huma dawn.
Ix-Xhud :
Iva qeghdin kollha fil-bid. Fil-bid hemm kollox dettaljat bis-CVs ta’ kulhadd, bil- ..
Imhallef A Lofaro :
U iccekjajtuhom dawn intom.
Ix-Xhud :
Iva mela.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Kien hemm kumpaniji baranin ukoll dawn fosthom …?
Ix-Xhud :
Sorry?
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Kien hemm kumpaniji esteri wkoll?
Ix-Xhud :
Kif ghedt, kien hemm l-Oxley Group ..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ehe, imma ..
Ix-Xhud :
Imbaghad kien hemm ..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Bhala shareholders tal-VGH jiena; shareholders tal-VGH. Ghax in-negozju maghhom sar basically…
Ix-Xhud :
Iva kien hemm. Ovvjament ma niftakarx; ghadda z-zmien jigifieri ma nistax nghidlek ezatt. Pero` hemm kollox inkluz fil-bid.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Sewwa; imbaghad ir-rakkomandazzjoni taghkom x’ kienet?
Ix-Xhud :
Le bazikament imbaghad ir-rakkomandazzjoni taghna kienet li skont kif talbet RFP id-dikjarajna li l-preferred bidder ovvjament huwa VGH u l-gvern jista’ imur ghan-next step fejn jibda id-diskusjonijiet u n-negozjati mal-VGH.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Kontu parti f’ dawn in-negozjati mbaghad?
Ix-Xhud :
No no.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Kien hemm xi rizenji minn Projects Malta?
Ix-Xhud :
Skuzi?
Ix-Xhud :
Kien hemm xi hadd li rrizenja in konnessjoni ma’ dan il-progett minn Projects Malta?
Ix-Xhud :
Ma niftakarx.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ma tiftakarx?
Ix-Xhud :
Ma niftakarx ta.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Voldieri r-remit taghkom waqaf sal-mument li intom ghamiltu r- rakkomandazzjoni.
Ix-Xhud :
We declared the preferred bidders.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
You declared the preferred bidders. Minn hemm ‘il quddiem ma kellkom x’ taqsmu xejn.
Ix-Xhud :
No.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Xejn xejn.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Xejn.
Ix-Xhud :
Nothing.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ghamiltu xi rapport lill-Ministru Konrad Mizzi?
Ix-Xhud :
No.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Xejn?
Ix-Xhud :
No.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Lanqas evaluation report?
Ix-Xhud :
Li ghamilna evaluation report u ghaddejnih lil Projects Malta
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Dak ghamiltu. Lil Projects Malta.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Lill-Ministeru tal-Finanzi kontu involejtuhom b’ xi mod?
Ix-Xhud :
No.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Lanqas.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Kellkom xi reclaim.. xi propesta minn bidders ohrajn – miz-zewg bidders l- ohrajn? It-tnejn accettaw li huma eskluzi?
Ix-Xhud :
No ma kellna l-ebda protesta.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
L-ebda protesta.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Ma sarx appell min-naha taghhom?
Ix-Xhud :
No.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Kemm irrizultalkom li kien ix-share capital ta’ din il-kumpanija VGH?
Ix-Xhud :
Il-VGH bhala kumpanija biex irregistrawha kien ma nafx.. xi elf u mitejn talli tirregistra; pero` kellhom lil Oxley Group li kienu qed jaghmlu a direct.. minhabba l-equity ta’ disa’ miljuni.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
U l-procedura taghkom kienet tinkludi wkoll parir fuq il- …. f’ dan il-progett?
Ix-Xhud :
Skuzi?
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Jekk ir-remit taghkom kienx jinkludi parir fuq il- ..
Ix-Xhud :
Le bazikament min ghamel l-assessment finanzjarju kellu jassessja li dan huwa feasible kif qed tghid inti.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Fil-fehma taghkom kien feasible.
Ix-Xhud :
Iva.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Allura kif falla mbaghad ghal darba darbtejn…?
Ix-Xhud :
Ovvjament..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ic-cirkostanzi ..
Ix-Xhud :
…ahna qed nghidu sa dak l-istat taghna, jigifieri minn hemm ‘l hemm imbaghad…
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Jekk hemm xi domandi..?
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Jekk hemm xi domandi ghalissa fuq dan biss.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ok. Mela biex nikkonferma, inti kont membru ta’ l-evaluation committee tal- bids fuq ta’ l-isptarijiet le? Ruq l-RFP ta’ l-isptarijiet
Ix-Xhud :
..
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Dak l-evaluation committee tista’ taghtini meta inhatar u sakemm domtu tahdmu?
Ix-Xhud :
Mela, minghalija… ma niftakarx ezatt, pero` minghalija xi November ta’…. le mhux..; March tal- ’15? Minhiex cert. Dati ma niftakarhomx.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ok. Jigifieri March tat-2015 kont parti minn l-evaluation committee
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Imma mbaghad fuq Projects Malta u nhtart fl-2017.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Yes.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Bejn l-2015 u l-2017 kellek relazzjoni ohra ma’ Projects Malta? Kellek xoghol iehor ma’ Projects Malta?
Ix-Xhud :
Bejn l-elfejn u… iva.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
X’ kien dak ix-xoghol?
Ix-Xhud :
Bazikament …
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Fiex kien jirrigwardja?
Ix-Xhud :
Mhux problema. Kienu qabduni… kien hemm progett iehor ta’ MAX Tourism ta’ San Gorg u kien irrezenja c-Chairman tan- negotiation committee u kienu appuntaw lili bhala replacement Chairman.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Jiena fhimtek illi dokumentazzjoni fir-rigward tal-Vitals hemm fi Projects Malta jew inti sibt meta dhalt Chairman ta’ Projects Malta; imma dokumentazzjoni fir-rigward ta’ l-Electrogas ma sibtx.
Ix-Xhud :
Le m’ hemmx; ma rajtx jigifieri jien.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ok. L-involviment ta’ Projects Malta fir-rigward ta’ l-RFP ta’ l-isptarijiet tista’ tispjegalna fiex kien jikkonsisti? Inti dak iz-zmien kont membru ta’ l- evaluation committee
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Inti, mil-lant Projects Malta x’ kont tircievi? Kont tircievi struzzjonijiet?
Ix-Xhud :
No le. Jiena bazikament terga’ kif ghedtlek, l-appointment form giet minn l- office tal-Permanent Secretary u gejt appuntat bhala Chairman ta’ l-evaluation committee. Ovvjament L-ewwel darba li dhalna hemmhekk kien hemm kif ghedt in-nutar u bdejna l-process ta’….
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ehe, pero` jekk fhimtek sew inti ghedt ahna wettaqna dak li Projects Malta riedet minna; u ghedt ukoll li l-evaluation reprot tajtuh lil Projects Malta
Ix-Xhud :
Mhux…, jiena l-RFP; request for proposal tghidlek xi trid minnek; mhux Projects Malta. Request for proposal huwa dokument.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ir-request for proposal min tahulek lilek?
Ix-Xhud :
Tahulna Projects Malta biex nibdew l-evaluation.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ha nghidlek, dawn id-domandi huma intizi biex nipprovaw nirrikonciljaw dak li qed tghid inti ma’ dak li qalilna haddiehor
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Jien mhux qed nipprova naqbdek f’ xejn. Biex inkun cara
Ix-Xhud :
Le le; pero` sa fejn naf jiena sincerament kien dokument pubbliku ta’ jigifieri..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ehe, imma li qed tghid donnu li jaghmel sens issa ma dak li smajna qabel illi Projects Malta kienet speci ta’ postman biss; ma kinetx involuta verament fil- progett ghaliex … id-dokument minn ghand xi hadd iehor, taghtu lilek u intom ghamiltu x-xoghol hu. Jista’ ikun li dik hija l-ispjega ghaliex min gie hawnhekk u qalilna li ma ahniex imdahhla f’ xejn ahna. Ma konniex imdahhlin ghaliex….; ma nafx, ghidilna inti. Tirrikoncilja z-zewg verzjonijiet
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Per ezempju l-komunikazjoni tieghek bhala Chairman ta’ l-evaluation committee ma’ Projects Malta ma’ min kienet issir?
Ix-Xhud :
Ovvjament konna nkellmu impjegat ta’ Projects Malta li huwa John Valenzia meta kellna bzonn xi affarijiet biex bhala assistenza
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Mal-Bord tad-Diretturi..
Ix-Xhud :
No no.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Xejn. Jigifieri r-relazzjoni taghkom bhala evaluation committee ma’ Projects Malta kienet tirrigwardja rikjesti ta’ ghajnuna ta’ assistenza?
Ix-Xhud :
Per ezempju, ezatt.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
U x’ izjed?
Ix-Xhud :
Daqshekk; dak kollox.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Per ezempju jew daqshekk?
Ix-Xhud :
Iva le, ghax ghedtli assistenza
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ok. Mela inti semmejt illi kien hemm tliet bids li dahlu
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
U dawk il-bids infethu fl-ufficcju ta’ Projects Malta?
Ix-Xhud :
Iva.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Issa, iz-zewg bids l-ohra li kienu dikjarati non-compliant taf ta’ min kienu?
Ix-Xhud :
Image Hospitals u BSP Investments.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Image Hospitals u BSP Investments, intom bhala evaluation committee ivverifikajtu min huma?
Ix-Xhud :
Ovvjament kien hemm imnizzel fis-submission taghhom; ma niftakarx l- ismijiet offhand min huma imma jigifieri. Imma hemm imnizzel kollox min huma. Meta jaghtu l-bid ikun hemm imnizzel l-ismijiet tan-nies li jiffurmaw il- kumpanija etc.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ivverifikajtu jekk kienux fake fronts?
Ix-Xhud :
Fake front?!
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ehe.
Ix-Xhud :
Ahna bazikament ..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Jekk kienux? Dottoressa, ma qbadthiex. Jekk kienux xiex?
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Fake fronts.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Jekk kienux fake fronts
Ix-Xhud :
Fake frant…; ahna ifihimni, ahna r-remit taghna diga` kont ghedtlek; jigifieri ahna ilqajna il-bids u evalwajnihom.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ehe imma x’ tip ta’ evaluation ghamiltu fil-konfront ta’ Image Hospitals u BSP Investments
Ix-Xhud :
Kif ghedtlek; Image Hospitals u BSP infethu quddiem in-nutar u ovvjament dahlu f’ kull bid; kull bid dahal in-nuatr fid-dettal u innota li kien hemm affarijiet neqsin.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Affarijiet serji hux hekk? Ghandi nifhem affarijiet serji neqsin; mhux affarijiet..; affarijiet ta’ sustanza neqsin, hux hekk?
Ix-Xhud :
Per ezempju bid bond
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Bid bond ma kienx hemm.
Ix-Xhud :
Ma kinetx hemm.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Inti semmejt illi fl-evaluation committee kontu iddecidejtu li taqsmu x-xoghol, u ghedt kien hemm zewg membri li kellhom jiffukaw fuq il-financial analysis..
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Mien kienu dawk iz-zewg membri?
Ix-Xhud :
Robert Borg u Emmanuel Castagna.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
U meta tghid wettqu financial analysis, wettqu financial analyses tal-proposta biex jew ghamlu wkoll financial due diligence tal-persuni tax-shareholders ta’ Vitals illi kienu qeghdin jibbidjaw?
Ix-Xhud :
Ghamlu kif ghedt dahlu fid-dettal fil-bid fil-financial declarations li kien hemm imnizzlin u naf zgur ukoll li ghamlu biex jaraw ghall-imhallef bhala feasibility iccekkjaw il-gvern ovvjament kemm qed ihallas bhalissa fuq subventions lit-tliet sptarijiet, u kemm ghandu sodod u kemm talab, u irrizulta li ovvjament dawn il-gvern kien at the end of the day during the concession ha johrog prezz irhas u izjed sodod.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ghal feasibility mad-Dottoressa ghal feasibility
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Imma d-Dottoressa qed tistaqsik jekk fuq il-persuni li huma l-investituri sarx dan id-due diligence
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Financial due diligence.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Jigifieri ghandi nifhem li fil-files taghkom .
Ix-Xhud :
Il-file kif ghedt, kien tant komprehensiv li kien hemm id-dikjarazzjonijiet kollha mit-third parties
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Le le, kollox sew. Imma fuq il-persuni. Ifhimni, normalment jekk ser jigi jinnegozja mieghek l-ewwel haga li jistaqsi jghidlek inti min inti? Jew immur niccekkja, nara, jien naf? fuq l-internet, nara dan min hu dan? Qed tifhem? Ghal persuna issa qed nghid. Biex naraw is-serjeta`. Ghax il-progett on paper zgur li kien sabih u ma intikom l-ebda tort li ghaziltuh. Pero` jekk saritx din l- ezami fuq il-persuni li kienu indikat bhala l-investituri. Ghax ahna din importanti hafna hu.
Ix-Xhud :
Iva, imma bazikament kif ghedt jiena. Jigifieri l-persuni kienu jifformaw joint venture; …
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Mhux importanti …
Ix-Xhud :
Jigifieri joint venture, jiena ha mmur niccekja fuq Price Waterhouse? Ha mur niccekja fuq Oxley Group?
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ghala? Price Waterhouse kienu parti minn l-investituri?
Ix-Xhud :
Kienu l-financial experts taghhom
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Il-financial expert ma huwiex l-investitur. Mela jekk .
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Ok, jiena nista’ nifhem, tghidli Price Water House; nafuha, ghax kumpanija qieghed hawn Malta u nafu x’ inhi. Imma Oxley, dina ma nafx; Oxley qatt ma smajtha, qatt ma smajt b’ din il-kumpanija jien.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Fil-fatt ghandi mistoqsija fuq Oxley.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Jiena naf l-ohrajn, l-ittri ta’ rakkomandazzjonijiet illi kien hemm dawn ivverifikajtuhom illi huma genwini? Gejjin minn postijiet rinomati?
Ix-Xhud :
Ifhimni, jekk ikollok dikjarazzjonijiet minn Bank of India, minn Bank of Singapore…
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Bank of India nghid jien..!
Ix-Xhud :
Jigifieri l-karti hemm kienu fil-bid.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Tezisti din il-Bank of India per ezempju? Jew ghandu xi forma taht xi isem iehor?
Ix-Xhud :
Tezisti hu, jigifieri..
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Qed timmagina?
Ix-Xhud :
Le; mhux nimmagina.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Eh?..
Ix-Xhud :
Min ghamel l-att finanzjarju ccekja, jigifieri jaf. Jien minhiex.. jien I am not a financial person..
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Jigifieri dawn li ghamlu l-evlwazzjoni finanzjarja dahlu f’ dawn il- kwistjonijiet.
Ix-Xhud :
Yes. Iccekjaw fid-dettal il-financial bid. Jigifieri ..
Imhallef A Lofaro :
U dan tafu kif jekk joghgbok? Kif tafu dan?
Ix-Xhud :
Ghax ghamlu rapport.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ghax ghamlu r-rapport.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Mela jekk il-bid kienet dokumentata sew b’ dawn id-dokumenti, fir-rigward ta’ Oxley Group nimmagina li l-bid kienet tghid ukoll min hu l-Ultimate Beneficial Owner ta’ dan il-grupp?
Ix-Xhud :
Ta’ VGH l-UBO kien Oxley Group.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Le; ta’ Oxley Group. U ta’ Oxley Group?
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Wara Oxley Group. Min hemm wara Oxley Group?
Ix-Xhud :
Ma niftakarx; ma nafx
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ivverifikajtu jekk kienx hemm xi hadd wara Oxley Group u min il-UBO?
Ix-Xhud :
Ma niftakarx. Jigifieri
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ifhem, meta insaqsik jekk sarx due diligence fuq ix-shareholders u due diligence fuq min qed jaghtihom il-letters of comfort, qed nistaqsik jekk ivverifikajtux jew tafux min hu l-Ulitimate Beneficial Owner ta’ dawn il- kumpaniji, dawn ghamiltuha dan l-ezercizzju? Kull avukat irid jiccekja minhabba l-FIAU min hu l-UBO tal-klijent tieghu. Il-UBO ta’ Oxley Group sibtu minn hu?
Ix-Xhud :
Ara, jien ma nistax…, ma niftakarx, jigifieri forsi wiehed irid jiccekja ma…, imma jien ma niftakarx.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ghad ghandek access ghar-rapport tal-..?
Ix-Xhud :
No m’ ghandix m’ ghandix.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ghalfejn m’ ghandekx?
Ix-Xhud :
Ghax ma ghadnix Projects Malta.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Hawnhekk ma kontx Projects Malta. Hawnhekk inti kont fuq l-evaluation committee mhux Projects Malta
Ix-Xhud :
Ezatt.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Allura l-fatt li ma ghadekx Projects Malta ma jfissirx li ma ghandekx kopja tar-rapport.
Ix-Xhud :
M’ ghandix kopja.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Jigifieri inti meta tlaqt, meta spiccajt minn l-evaluation committee ma zammejtx kopji tar-rapporti ghalik?
Ix-Xhud :
M’ ghandix kopja’, m’ ghandix kopja.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Il-kopja ta’ l-evaluation ..
Ix-Xhud :
By the way, kellna non-disclosure agreement iffirmata minn kull membru wkoll
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ghalhekk qed tghidli li ma ghandex kopja?
Ix-Xhud :
Jien ma zammejtx kopja.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Kopja ta’ l-evaluation zammejt? L-evaluation report?
Ix-Xhud :
No nothing.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Imma inti mhux prezentajt l-evaluation report f’ Awla ohra?
Ix-Xhud :
Imma ovvjament dak kien mitlub u ..
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Mela ha nerga’ insaqsik jekk il-Bord…
Ix-Xhud :
U… u gie minn l-entita`, minn Projects Malta.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Jekk il-Bord jitolbok dawn ir-rapporti inti tista’ iggibhom?
Ix-Xhud :
Jien ma nistax ghax ma ghadnix Projects Malta.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
… imma sorry ta’, . irridu nkunu serji issa!
Ix-Xhud :
Skuzi?
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Irridu nkunu serji. Jigifieri inti qed tghidli spiccajt minn Projects Malta u qattejt kollox
Ix-Xhud :
Le ma nistax ingibhom jien id-dokumenti tal-kumpanija. Jekk inti tkun tahdem ma’ kumpanija u ma ghadekx maghha ..
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Dawn ma humiex dokumenti tal-kumpanija. Inti kont membru fl-evaluation committee.
Ix-Xhud :
Huma tal-kumpanija
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Dak iz-zmien ma kellek l-ebda konnessjoni ma’ Projects Malta, suppost. Hekk kienet?
Ix-Xhud :
Meta kont fl-evaluataion ma kontx Projects Malta.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Allura inti bhala Chairperson ta’ l-evaluation committee spiccajt xoghlok u lil min tajthom id-dokumentazjonijiet tieghek?
Ix-Xhud :
Lil Projects Malta.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Hassart l-emails kollha?
Ix-Xhud :
Ma kellix emails.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Allura kif kienu jinghatwlek il-kopji tal-financial report?
Ix-Xhud :
Il-financial report bazikament kien jigi.. ghedtlek kellna xi ghaxar meetings u kien gie sottomess waqt wiehed mill-Board meetings.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Jigifieri ghandi nifhem illi l-financial report inkiteb by hand?
Ix-Xhud :
U le ma nkitibx by hand
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Allura kif kontu tikkomunikaw bejnietkom fuq dawn ir-rapporti?
Ix-Xhud :
Mhux jaghmlu presentation lill-Bord!? Lill-individwi li qed jaghmlu ir-remit taghhom?!
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Jien qed inhossha stramba ta! Qed inhossha stramba, ghaliex bhala regola, jekk jien naghmel bicca xoghol anke ghad-difiza tieghi stess, ghas-sodisfazjon tieghi u li ma jkunx hemm xi hadd li jimmidizerpretani, jien inzomm kopja.
Ix-Xhud :
Jiena ma ghandix kopja Sur Imhallef.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Issa haga bhal din narha stramba illi ma jkollokx kopja! Issa ghandek id-dritt tghid ma ghandix u ma ghandix..
Ix-Xhud :
M’’ ghandix
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Imma hija stramba ghalija.
Ix-Xhud :
Sincerament m’ ghandix
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Normalment anke jekk jiena mort nikteb setenza inzomm kopja halli ghada pitghada …
Ix-Xhud :
Sincerament ma ghandix kopja Sur Imhallef.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
M’ ghandekx kopja
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ma bsartx li ser insaqsuk fuq hekk illum imma?
Ix-Xhud :
Skuzi?
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ghax ma tantx tidher li ghamilt homework. Ma bsartx li ser nistaqsuk fuq dawn l-affarijiet illum?
Ix-Xhud :
Jiena ma nisatx.. jiena naf li fit-tahrikja hemm li ngib id-dokumenti; ma stajtx ingibhom imma, ghax jiena minhiex ..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ghandek ragun, u jgibhom min qieghed hemm illum. Igibhom min qieghed ..
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ma tantx qed taghtina informazzjoni inti.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
…inti illi fil-files ta’ Projects Malta hemm dan li qed tghid int.
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Hemm.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Inti meta spiccajt minn Chairperson ta’ l-evaluation committee lil min ghaddejthom dawn ir-rapporti?
Ix-Xhud :
Ghaddejnihom lil Projects Malta.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Min?
Ix-Xhud :
Bazikament lil John Valenzia li kien jiehu hsieb l-administration, u nahseb ovvjament ic-Chairman William Wait.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
U lil William Wait.
Ix-Xhud :
U ovvjament is-segretarju tal-Bord jghaddi kollox lil… ghalhekk hemm is- segretarju biex jghaddi .
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Min kien is-segretarju tal-Bord?
Ix-Xhud :
Aaron Mifsud Bonnici
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
U ghadu hekk sal-lum
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ghadu sal-lum?
Ix-Xhud :
Ghadu sal-lum …?
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Segratarju
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Le, fuq l-evalutaion Board le. Imma ..
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Le, bhala segretarju.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Aaron Mifsud Bonnici dak iz-zmien ma kienx Direttur tfuq Projects Malta u Company Secretary ta’ Projects Malta?
Ix-Xhud :
Ma nafx x’ kien; ma nafx x’ kien.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
U lanqas li kien l-avukat ta’ Konrad Mizzi tal-Ministru?
Ix-Xhud :
Jiena ma nidholx f’ affarijiet ohra; jigifieri jiena ..
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ma tistaqsix.
Ix-Xhud :
M’ ghandix ghalfejn.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
M’ ghandux ghalejn.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Waqt li kontu qed taghmlu l-evaluation ta’ l-RFP, intom ivverifikajtu jekk il- bidders u rapprezentanti ta’ Vitals kienux diga` kellhom laqghat mal-Prim Ministru Muscat f’ Kastilja f’ dak iz-zmien?
Ix-Xhud :
Le.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Jigifieri intom ma kontux tafu illi ..
Ix-Xhud :
No.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
…. Shawkat Ali kien diga` iltaqa’ Kastilja mal-Prim Ministru
Ix-Xhud :
Le. No ma konniex nafu.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ma kontux tafu.
Ix-Xhud :
No.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
U meta sirtu tafu ..
Ix-Xhud :
Jien ma kontx naf
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
U meta sirt taf illi kien hemm dawn il-laqghat qabel ma hareg l-RFP?
Ix-Xhud :
Skuzi?
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Sirt taf at some point ….
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Bir-rispett kollu ta! ..
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
…illi kien hemm dawn il-laqghat?
Dr Pawlu Lia :
….fl-ebda mument ma qal li kien jaf dan li qed jigi suggerit lilu issa. Mhux fair lix-xhud qed insaqsuh affarijiet biex nitramellaw lilu u ma nafx ghalfejn ghax ma ghandha x’ taqsam xejn ma l-iskop ta’ inkjesta f’ dan kollu. Qeghdin nittolleraw kollox pero` ma ghandu x’ jaqsam xejn ma’ l-iskop ta’ l-Inkjesta. Ghandu x’ jaqsam biss ma’ skopijiet ta’ deputati ta’ partit iehor li ghandhom ghanijiet ohra, biss.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Dottore dik narawha ahna
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Bir-rispett kollu, l-inkjesta ghandha …lix-xhud li ma jigix .. li kif qal xi haga u jibda jiddubita jekk hux veru qal dan li qed tissuggerilu issa ghax ma qalux dak id-diskors.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Point taken
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Mhux fair mhux fair.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Point taken.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Il-fatt il-mistoqsija tieghi kienet jekk sarx jaf ..
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Kienet …ghax tissuggerilu li jaf xi haga li qatt ma qal li jafha.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Jimporta?
Dr Pawlu Lia :
U lanqas nafu jekk hux veru..
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
U jekk nigu f’ dan ..
Dr Pawlu Lia :
U lanqas nafu jekk hux veru …
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Dottore sekonda; irrifrejzja d-domanda ..
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
U jekk hija xi haga li inti ma tafx ghid mall-ewwel ma nafx
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ghidilna ma nafx
Ix-Xhud :
Ghedtilha ghedtilha jien
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Fejn ma jafx qal ma jafx
Ix-Xhud :
Ghedtilha ma nafx.
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Staqsietu ..
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
All right; issa bizzejjed
Dr Pawlu Lia :
…meta sirt taf; ma qalx li kien jaf.
Ix-Xhud :
Ezatt.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Jghid li qatt ma sar jaf
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Is-suggeriment gej minn din is-sinjura bir-rispett kollu ..
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Jekk ma jimpurtax Dr Lia ma ghandekx ghalfejn tgholli lehnek
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Uuuu!
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
M’ ghandekx ghalfen tgholli lehnek
Dr Pawlu Lia :
…tajjeb li jkun on records, ma ghandu x’ jaqsam xejn ma’ l-iskopjiet ta’ din l- inkjesta.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Dak naraw ahna.
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Kulhadd jaf ..
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Dak naraw ahna.
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Kulhadd jaf. Imma hawn min ghandu skopjiet ohra u qed jasal ghalihom bl- ghajnuna ta’ din l-inkjesta.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ahna ma nafux
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Imma hana nafu.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Imma ahna ma nafux.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Issa forsi nifhem ahjar l-ittra tal-Prim Ministru Dr Lia.
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Kun fair ..
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Mela erga’ aghmel id-domanda
Dr Pawlu Lia :
…kunu fair … anke ma dak li ma ghandux x’ jaqsam
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Taghmilx domandi ipotetici; tista’ tissuggerixxi, imma mhux ipotetici
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Fil-public domain hemm informazzjoni ..
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Dak li hu public domain ma ghandekx bzonn li tistaqsih, jekk inhu hekk
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Dottoressa aghmel id-domanda
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Aghmel id-domanda
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Fil-public domain hemm informazzjoni illi l-Prim Ministru qabel ma nharget l-RFP kien diga` kellu laqghat ma’ rapprezentanti ta’ Vitals Group, il-laqghat kienu jinkludu lil Shawkat Ali. Intom dan kontu tafu bih..?
Ix-Xhud :
Jiena ma kontx naf bih.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Mhux intom, inti kont taf?
Ix-Xhud :
Jien ma kontx naf bih
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Jekk tafx inti
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Daqshekk; ma nafx ghalfejn dan il-fas kollu!
Dr Pawlu Lia :
Ghax diga` wiegbed id-domanda …
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Iktar domandi
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Jiena fuq il-progett tal-Vitals ma ghandix iktar domandi imma ghandi iktar domandi fuq affarijiet ohra
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Ghandna domanda ahna. Issa dan il-hin ghamilna search fuq dan ..
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Oxley Group
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
..Oxley Group; u telaghlna Oxley Group, pero` ma ghandu x’ jaqsam xejn ma’ l-isptarijiet. Ma ghandhom l-ebda konnessjoni ma’ l-isptarijiet
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Xejn.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Xejn. Dan ghamilnih issa
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Issa ccekjana.
Ix-Xhud :
Ehe.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Issa ccekjana, u lanqas isemmu expertise fl-isptarijiet ..
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Xejn.
Ix-Xhud :
Fil-bid kien hemm imnizel l-investimenti li ghamlu u fejn investew etc. Jigifieri kollox qieghed fil-bid li ssotomettew.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Expertise ma jidhirx li kien hemm.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Fil-website taghhom illum
Ix-Xhud :
Financial qed nghid
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Financial.
Ix-Xhud :
Investors ta’ dawn; financial investors; jigifieri mhux huma per se jkunu.. huma financial investment company.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Jinvestu biss.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Huma jinvestu flus biss.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Jinvestu biss.
Ix-Xhud :
Skuzani jekk ma kontx car, yes, investment company .
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ahajr hekk; grazzi.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Just l-ahhar domanda fuq din. Inti semmejt illi l-persuni illi kienu mahtura biex jaghmlu l-financial analysis kienu Manuel Castagna u Robert Borg. Nghid sew illi Manuel Catagnia kien ukoll impejgat ta’ Nexia BT?
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Jekk taf ghidilna.
Ix-Xhud :
Ma nafx le ..
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ma jafx.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Ma jafx.
Ix-Xhud :
Ma kontx naf jigifieri
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
U Robert Borg kien impjegat jew konness accountant tal-General Workers Union
Ix-Xhud :
Ma nafx lanqas.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ma tafx. Ma ghandix izjed fuq dan il-progett Sur Imhallef
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Issa ghad-DB Group l-ITS site ..
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Is-sit ta’ l-ITS, x’ tista’ tghidilna? Kif kont involut fiha din?
Ix-Xhud :
Kif ghedt qabel, dan irrezenja c-Chairman tan- negotiation committee u din id- darba Projects Malta baghtu lili biex nirriplejsja lic-Chairman ta’ qabli.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
U erga’ ghidilna d-data please?
Ix-Xhud :
November tat-2015 jekk minhiex sejjer zball, jekk niftakar sew.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ok.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Iva; u x’ gara?
Ix-Xhud :
Le bazikament ic-Chairman ta’ qabli tani handover fejn kienu waslu bhala kumitat. U dawn kienu fil-process ovvjament li qabdu esperti biex jaghmlu evalwazzjoni dettaljata verament kemm tiswa l-art, u bazikament kien gharrafni li kienu informaw lil Projects Malta biex jingaggjaw lil xi hadd.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Biex jistma l-art.
Ix-Xhud :
Ehe. Projects Malta sa fejn naf jien milli niftakar gabu stimi u ghazlu lil Deliotte biex ikun jista’ jassisti ….mhux.. prattikament esperti f’ dan il-qasam.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Biex nifhem ukoll ta; din tad-DB, dina kienet public private partnership jew kien hemm element ta’ investiment privat mal-gvern jew le?
Ix-Xhud :
Le dan bazikament its a mix tourisim marketing tas-sit ta’ fejn kienet l-ITS qabel
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ehe, imma jigifieri kien hemm element fil-progett kolli ta’ investiment privat mal-gvern jew le? Min-naha ta’ Projects Malta qed nghid issa jien
Ix-Xhud :
Ovvjament dan mhux bhal l-isptarijiet, dan…
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Iva; zomm sekonda; ghedtilna l-ewwel u mhux inti biss u haddiehor ukoll, intom inhloqtu biex ikun hemm ..
Ix-Xhud :
Iva iva; imma kif ghedna, il-valwazzjoni ta’ l-art, dan irid ihallas il-gvern ta’ l- art li..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Naqblu naqblu
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Imma issa qed nigu ghal progett.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Dana d-domanda kienet semplici; jinvolvi element ta’ investiment tal-gvern fil-progett jew le?
Ix-Xhud :
No.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
No.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
No. Mill-privat biss.
Ix-Xhud :
Privat biss.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ma kienx hemm partnership bejniethom pero` xorta dhaltu intom bhala Projects Malta b’ xi mod.
Ix-Xhud :
Jiena mhux Projects Malta; jiena dhalt bhala.. ghedtlek, qabduni Projects Malta, jien mhux ..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Imma kien f’ idejn Projects Malta hu
Ix-Xhud :
Projects Malta qabdet lili.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Iva imma l-progett ….
Ix-Xhud :
Kien f’ idejn Projects Malta
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Heq! U kif gie ghand Projects Malta inti ma tafx, mhux hekk?
Ix-Xhud :
…
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Sewwa. U dhalt biss f’ dan l-aspett ta’ valuation prattikament
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Dik storja ohra, ma ghandhiex x’ taqsam maghna, inhalluha ghaddejja band’ ohra.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Kont Chairman tan-negotiation committee?
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Inti kont ic-Chairman dak iz-zmien
Ix-Xhud :
Le, irriplejsjajt lil ta’ qabli.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
U l-valutazzjoni ta’ l-art u tas-sit saret qabel jew wara li ntaghzel il-bid?
Ix-Xhud :
Il-bid intaghzel u mbaghad saru n-negozjati.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ok; mela wara.
Ix-Xhud :
Jigifieri ghalhekk imbaghad tqabdu Deloitte biex jaghmlu….
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Mela l-ewwel intaghzel il-bid u mbaghad saret il-valuation ta’ l-art.
Ix-Xhud :
Ezatt. Ta’ l-art
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
U fil-process tal-bid inti ma dhaltx
Ix-Xhud :
Skuzi?
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Fil-process tal-bid ma dhaltx; ghax inti tevalwa biss kont.
Ix-Xhud :
Ezatt. Le jiena fil-kumitat.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Tal-bid? Jigifieri taf kemm ibbidjaw ghall-art? Dhalt fiha din? Kont taf?
Ix-Xhud :
Iva, jien membru kont.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Tal- … committee
Ix-Xhud :
Ta’ l-evaluation committee
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Imma l-evaluation saret wara li dahlu l-bids jew qabel?
Ix-Xhud :
Le.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Iva diga` qal li wara.
Ix-Xhud :
Il-valuation saret ..
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Wara.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Wara.
Ix-Xhud :
Inti ovvjament ..fin-negozjati inqabdu Deloitte biex johorgu a fair price ta’ l- art.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Wara li intaghzel il-bidder. Diga` wegibha ta. Wiegeb lili.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Jigifieri jekk nistaqsik il-bidding process ma’ min sar ma tafx jekk hux ma’ Process Malta jew ma’ xi Ministeru iehor? Il-bidding process biex tintaghzel dik il-persuna.
Ix-Xhud :
Il-bidding process kien hemm evaluation committee u ghazlu lil DB bhala preferred bidder.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
U inti f’ dan ma kontx.
Ix-Xhud :
Iva membru kont.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Kont membru
Ix-Xhud :
Kont membru, mhux Chairman imma
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Inti kont membru. U sar dak il-process minn Projects Malta allura.
Ix-Xhud :
Yes.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ehe. Hemm xi domanda fuq l-ITS?
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Qed nipprova nifhem; inti kont membru ta’ l-evaluation committee jew tan- negotiation committee?
Ix-Xhud :
Ta’ l-evaluation.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ta’ l- valuation committee. In-negotiation committee min kien? Min kienu l- membru tan-negotiation committee?
Ix-Xhud :
Jiena…
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Tan-negotiation committee.
Ix-Xhud :
Iva iva, tan-negotiation.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
In-negozjar.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Mela negotiation committee kontu inti, ..
Ix-Xhud :
Dr Alex Sciberras, u Peter Zammit.
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Mela inti kont membru fin-negotiation committee imma kont ukoll fl- evaluation committee?
Ix-Xhud :
Le, ghax …qlibthom!
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :c Ghax ghalhekk qeghdin ..
Ix-Xhud :
Kont Chairman fin-negotiation u membru fl-evaluation
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Kotn fit-tnejn mela.
Ix-Xhud :
Iva.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Yes kien fi tnejn, yes
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ok. Daqshekk. L-evaluation committee min kienu?
Ix-Xhud :
L-evaluation kien hemm Chairman George Gregory, kien hemm Mario Galea…
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
U inti.
Ix-Xhud :
Jiena, u ma nafx jekk hux xi hadd Gaerty, ma nafx x’ jismu.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Gaerty
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Marvin Gaerty?
Ix-Xhud :
Ma nafx, ma niftakarx
Dr Therese Comodini Cachia :
Ok. Thank you,
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Sakemm dont fi Projects Malta inti l-Ministeru min kien? Taht liema Ministeru kontu taqghu?
Ix-Xhud :
Tat-Turizmu.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ghad-DB ..
Ix-Xhud :
Skuzi?
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Il-Projects Malta taht liema Ministeru jaqa’
Ix-Xhud :
Inti ghedtli meta kont hemm jien, le?
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Il-Projects Malta.
Ix-Xhud :
Meta kont nahdem Projects Malta
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Ehe ehe.
Ix-Xhud :
Taht Ministry of Tourism.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Of Tourism?
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Dejjem.
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Li kien allura taht il-Ministru Mizzi?
Ix-Xhud :
Yes yes
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Qatt kellkom bhala Projects Malta kunattt dirett mal-Ministeru? Jew kellek …
Ix-Xhud :
Ahna dejjem through il-Permanent Secretary nimxu
Imhallef J Said Pullicino :
Dejjem through the Permanent Secretary
Ix-Xhud :
Yes
Imhallef A Lofaro :
U ghal finanzi? Mal-Ministeru tal-Finanzi kien hemm kuntatt?
Ix-Xhud :
Kuntatt fuq xoghol ovvjament hu.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Ehe. Mal-Ministru jew mal-perm sec.
Ix-Xhud :
Le through the office of the perm sec.
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Perm sec.
Ix-Xhud :
Le meta per ezempju tiddijlja bhal.. taf inti, tahdem ma’ entitajiet differenti governattivi .
Imhallef A Lofaro :
Hekk hu. Dejjem mal-Permanent Secretary
Ix-Xhud :
Mhux Permanent Secretary tal-Finanzi. Man-nies, man-nies li jahdmu l- finanzi, fhimt?
Imhallef A Lofaro :
I see ok.
Chairman Imhallef M Mallia :
Gazzi hafna.
Din hija s-sustanza tax-xhieda ta’ James Camenzuli kif giet dettata minnu stess fil-prezenza ta’ l-istess xhud.
Niddikjara li traskrivejt bl-ahjar hila tieghi x-xhieda ta’ l-istess xhud.
Saviour Scicluna Traskrittur